[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[rcwraspy]

So....realistically speaking, the top decks I should expect to be facing at States are G/B Desecration Demon decks, U/W Control, G/W Aggro, Mono Red, and possibly W/B Baron/Obzedat decks.

G/W seems to just attack on one obvious angle - I think it should get hated out pretty easily.

I'm not sold on the new B/G midrange lists yet. Losing Mutilate and Thragtusk were huge. Gaze of Granite definitely comes in, but it's much less impactful. We're playing Caryatid to help the mana, but still. I like Reaper of the Wilds taking Thragtusk's place in the deck as the hard to deal with board presence, but the deck hurts itself a lot. And again, I think the removal is just too slow.

[Alex]

So....realistically speaking, the top decks I should expect to be facing at States are G/B Desecration Demon decks, U/W Control, G/W Aggro, Mono Red, and possibly W/B Baron/Obzedat decks.

G/W seems to just attack on one obvious angle - I think it should get hated out pretty easily.

I'm not sold on the new B/G midrange lists yet. Losing Mutilate and Thragtusk were huge. Gaze of Granite definitely comes in, but it's much less impactful. We're playing Caryatid to help the mana, but still. I like Reaper of the Wilds taking Thragtusk's place in the deck as the hard to deal with board
presence, but the deck hurts itself a lot. And again, I think the removal is just too slow.

Yeah, the deck is not good without a board wipe.

[zemanjaski]

GW is the most linear aggro deck; it's the real "turn dudes sideways!" deck. It's an implicitly powerful but flawed strategy and takes a special mix of cards to be remotely playable. Compared to red you have:
- no haste or burn, so your opponent can freely leverage life for cards
- no removal, which isn't always relevant on account of creature size
- no manlands, lowering threat density
- substantially worse mana, despite no manlands

In exchange you get above curve creatures and the strategic benefit of never having to deeply evaluate a board position; your deck can only ever do one thing anyway.

[Khaospawn]

So....realistically speaking, the top decks I should expect to be facing at States are G/B Desecration Demon decks, U/W Control, G/W Aggro, Mono Red, and possibly W/B Baron/Obzedat decks.

G/W seems to just attack on one obvious angle - I think it should get hated out pretty easily.

I'm not sold on the new B/G midrange lists yet. Losing Mutilate and Thragtusk were huge. Gaze of Granite definitely comes in, but it's much
less impactful. We're playing Caryatid to help the mana, but still. I like Reaper of the Wilds taking Thragtusk's place in the deck as the hard to deal with board presence, but the deck hurts itself a lot. And again, I think the removal is just too slow.

Yeah, the deck is not good without a board wipe.

What do you guys think about Primeval Bounty? My brother played a single copy in his G/B deck at FNM and just dominated whenever he landed it.

Also, judge question: playing a god, such as Erebos, with Bounty out, does it trigger for both creature AND non-creature? I know the god is creature dominant, but it IS an enchantent too.

[rcwraspy]

So....realistically speaking, the top decks I should expect to be facing at States are G/B Desecration Demon decks, U/W Control, G/W Aggro, Mono Red, and possibly W/B Baron/Obzedat decks.

G/W seems to just attack on one obvious angle - I think it should get hated out
pretty easily.

I'm not sold on the new B/G midrange lists yet. Losing Mutilate and Thragtusk were huge. Gaze of Granite definitely comes in, but it's much less impactful. We're playing Caryatid to help the mana, but still. I like Reaper of the Wilds taking Thragtusk's place in the deck as the hard to deal with board presence, but the deck hurts itself a lot. And again, I think the removal is just too slow.

Yeah, the deck is not good without a board wipe.

What do you guys think about Primeval Bounty? My brother played a single copy in his G/B deck at FNM and just dominated whenever he landed it.

Also, judge question: playing a god, such as Erebos, with Bounty out, does it trigger for both creature AND non-creature? I know the god is creature dominant, but it IS an enchantent too.

I'm not a judge but my guess is that God cards, when they're in spell form, are creature spells. The fact that they're
enchantments doesn't affect the fact that it's also a creature. So as a spell, it's never a "non creature".

I like Primeval Bounty a LOT in the deck. But you have to be alive to use it, and I don't think we have the sweepers to do that.

[hamfactorial]

So....realistically speaking, the top decks I should expect to be facing at States are G/B Desecration Demon decks, U/W Control, G/W Aggro, Mono Red, and possibly W/B Baron/Obzedat decks.

G/W seems to just attack on one obvious angle - I think it should get hated out
pretty easily.

I'm not sold on the new B/G midrange lists yet. Losing Mutilate and Thragtusk were huge. Gaze of Granite definitely comes in, but it's much less impactful. We're playing Caryatid to help the mana, but still. I like Reaper of the Wilds taking Thragtusk's place in the deck as the hard to deal with board presence, but the deck hurts itself a lot. And again, I think the removal is just too slow.

Yeah, the deck is not good without a board wipe.

What do you guys think about Primeval Bounty? My brother played a single copy in his G/B deck at FNM and just dominated whenever he landed it.

Also, judge question: playing a god, such as Erebos, with Bounty out, does it trigger for both creature AND non-creature? I know the god is creature dominant, but it IS an enchantent too.

Disregard wrong answer, acquire raspy's explanation below

[rcwraspy]

So....realistically speaking, the top decks I should expect to be facing at States are G/B Desecration Demon decks, U/W
Control, G/W Aggro, Mono Red, and possibly W/B Baron/Obzedat decks.

G/W seems to just attack on one obvious angle - I think it should get hated out pretty easily.

I'm not sold on the new B/G midrange lists yet. Losing Mutilate and Thragtusk were huge. Gaze of Granite definitely comes in, but it's much less impactful. We're playing Caryatid to help the mana, but still. I like Reaper of the Wilds taking Thragtusk's place in the deck as the hard to deal with board presence, but the deck hurts itself a lot. And again, I think the removal is just too slow.

Yeah, the deck is not good without a board wipe.

What do you guys think about Primeval Bounty? My brother played a single copy in his G/B deck at FNM and just dominated whenever he landed it.

Also, judge question: playing a god, such as Erebos, with Bounty out, does it trigger for both creature AND non-creature? I know the god is creature dominant, but it IS an
enchantent too.

Yes, a creature enchantment (or creature artifact or creature land, etc.) will trigger the Bounty twice. You can stack the effects however you like, but you can only target a creature that's already in play for the +1/+1 counters. You couldn't make a 3/3 Beast and then put 3 +1/+1 counters on it with an otherwise empty board.

are you sure about that Ham? Since it says "creature" in the type line, it's not a "noncreature spell" I thought. If bounty said "enchantment" instead of "noncreature" then I'd agree it triggers twice.

[hamfactorial]

Crap, you're right about that one raspy. Time to edit the post above.

This brings up an interesting rules wrinkle. The Gods state that they aren't creatures when your devotion is < some amount. The card specifically says Creature in the card type, so I wonder if it counts as a creature on the stack and becomes "not a creature" upon entering the battlefield. But the devotion clause is a state-based effect (like Tarmogoyf's P/T) so it applies whether it's in your hand or in the graveyard.

This is some sort of strange Schroedinger's Cat thing where you have non-creature creatures. This has interesting applications for creature-based counters like Essence Scatter.

[Khaospawn]

The Gods are just one big rules mess, apparently.

[rcwraspy]

Crap, you're right about that one raspy. Time to edit the post above.

This brings up an interesting rules wrinkle. The Gods state that they aren't creatures when your devotion is < some amount. The card specifically says Creature in the card type, so I wonder if it counts as a creature on the stack and becomes "not a creature" upon entering the battlefield. But the devotion clause is a state-based effect (like Tarmogoyf's P/T) so it applies whether it's in your hand or in the graveyard.

This is some sort of strange Schroedinger's Cat thing where you have non-creature creatures. This has interesting applications for creature-based counters like Essence Scatter.

I thought that since devotion is
checked when it hits the battlefield, a God's own casting cost can count toward its devotion. Therefore it's only ever not a creature when it's on the battlefield with devotion less than the required number. In all other zones, including the stack, it's both an enchantment card/spell and a creature card/spell.

[Khaospawn]

I'm really liking Turtenwald's deck.

[rcwraspy]

I'm really liking Turtenwald's deck.

Same here. Do we know the full 75 from anywhere?

[RedNihilist]

Raspy's words are wise.

[Kazekirimaru]

I saw my wife today and the person he left me for at the mall today while I was working.

Bleh.

[Khaospawn]

Geez, Hammer doing some fucking work.

[Khaospawn]

Here's what I've deduced:

4 Satyr
4 Cackler
4 Denizen
4 BTE
4 FF Striker
4 GHC
2 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Mutavault
18 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Hammer
?SKullcrack
?Peak Eruption
?
?

[rcwraspy]

I saw my wife today and the person he left me for at the mall today while I was working.

Bleh.

Did you walk up to them, nod at her, and then reach down, rip out his junk, and hold it triumphant and bloody into the air while shouting a blood-curding battle cry?

[rcwraspy]

Cause that's what I'd do

[Khaospawn]

However, in the time I took to post that, Owen somehow lost

I saw an Elspeth on the board.

[Khaospawn]

I saw my wife today and the person he left me for at the mall today while I was working.

Bleh.

Did you walk up to them, nod at her, and then reach down, rip out his junk, and hold it triumphant and bloody into the air while shouting a blood-curding battle cry?

Flawless Victory

[rcwraspy]

Geez, Hammer doing some fucking work.

Hammer's definitely doing work, but he's pretty much dead to Elspeth. Maybe a bastardization of Turtenwald's deck and Nuwen's, for access to Dreadbore?

[DroppinSuga]

It's OK Khaos, I can send you a nude selfie so you can finish jerking it.

[Yarpus]

Elspeth, Jace and Aetherling being cards to beat? Pithing Needle seems to get better and better.

[dpaine88]

I don't get the arguement against GW that the mana is bad...it seems fine to me. Not sure what they run but I'd assume its like 8 Forest, 8 Plains, 4 Temple Garden, 4 Tap land. Most of the creatures cost GW and not many double costs.

[Khaospawn]

It's OK Khaos, I can send you a nude selfie so you can finish jerking it.

Man, I knew I forgot to add something to the envelope I just sent out

[Khaospawn]

Geez, Hammer doing some fucking work.

Hammer's definitely doing work, but he's pretty much dead to Elspeth. Maybe a bastardization of Turtenwald's deck and Nuwen's, for access to Dreadbore?

Well, the plan is to go just for the kill before they can even cast one. The deck is very capable of turn 4 wins, something the decks I was testing couldn't really do that well.

[Helios]

Agree with you on 'speth, Khaos. Phoenix goes over her, Zealot goes through the tokens, and if they tap out on turn 6 you can probably burn their face.

Elspeth, Jace and Aetherling being cards to beat? Pithing Needle seems to get better and better.

Just played 7 games against Esper, and Jace didn't stop me any. A turn they tap out to play Jace is a turn the can't counter a hasty threat/Chandra/Hammer.

[zemanjaski]

I don't get the arguement against GW that the mana is bad...it seems fine to me. Not sure what they run but I'd assume its like 8 Forest, 8 Plains, 4 Temple Garden, 4 Tap land. Most of the creatures cost GW and not many double costs.

That's a bad manabase, go run the numbers through Ham's guide. It has plenty of both colours, but you have trouble making the colour combinations you need on 1 and 2. You also have no way to mitigate flood. This results in the deck running 'hot and cold'.

[Khaospawn]

Yeah, Pithing Needle is such a poor inclusion in any aggressive deck. It doesn't further your board state or kill your opponent. Hell, with a Hammer, even Mountains become deadly. Pithing Needle is just a flaccid penis compared to that kind of firepower.

[rcwraspy]

Geez, Hammer doing some fucking work.

Hammer's definitely doing work, but he's pretty much dead to Elspeth. Maybe a bastardization of Turtenwald's deck and Nuwen's, for access to Dreadbore?

Well, the plan is to go just for the kill before they can even cast one. The deck is very capable of turn 4 wins, something the decks I was testing couldn't really do that well.

What do you think
about Chandra somewhere in the 75? Would provide an additional falter effect for the embarrassingly effective Yoked Ox and some much needed CA against a control deck. Nice synergy with Hammer too.

[DroppinSuga]

And we all know that there is not a single member of FoS who enjoys a flaccid penis.

[Khaospawn]

Geez, Hammer doing some fucking work.

Hammer's definitely doing work, but he's pretty much dead to Elspeth. Maybe a bastardization of Turtenwald's deck and Nuwen's, for access to Dreadbore?

Well, the plan is to go just for the kill
before they can even cast one. The deck is very capable of turn 4 wins, something the decks I was testing couldn't really do that well.

What do you think about Chandra somewhere in the 75? Would provide an additional falter effect for the embarrassingly effective Yoked Ox and some much needed CA against a control deck. Nice synergy with Hammer too.

I just don't know, honestly. It's basically an AiR deck.

[Khaospawn]

And we all know that there is not a single member of FoS who enjoys a flaccid penis.

Amen.

[lorddax]

Cycle: Gods

The gods of Theros are ethereal beings who live among the stars. If mortals’ belief in them is strong enough, they can manifest themselves and wage war beside them.

Nylea, God of the Hunt
{3}{G}
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God
6/6
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to green is less than five, Nylea isn’t a creature. (Each {G} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts toward your devotion to green.)
Other creatures you control have trample.
{3}{G}: Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.

* The type-changing ability that can make the God not be a creature functions only on the battlefield. It’s always a creature card in other zones, regardless of your devotion to its color.

* If a God enters the battlefield, your devotion to its color (including the mana symbols in the mana cost of the God itself) will determine if a creature entered the battlefield or not,
for abilities that trigger whenever a creature enters the battlefield.

* If a God stops being a creature, it loses the type creature and all creature subtypes. It continues to be a legendary enchantment.

* The abilities of Gods function as long as they’re on the battlefield, regardless of whether they’re creatures.

* If a God is attacking or blocking and it stops being a creature, it will be removed from combat.

* If a God is dealt damage, then stops being a creature, then becomes a creature again later in the same turn, the damage will still be marked on it. This is also true for any effects that were affecting the God when it was originally a creature. (Note that in most cases, the damage marked on the God won’t matter because it has indestructible.)

Based on that from the Theros Release notes, the only time it is NOT a creature is when its state check does not see its devotion count on the field. As state base checks happen, the card will retain "is not a creature"
or lose it. So when you cast it to the field, as it enters after resolving, it will be a creature then immediately check the field as a statebased effect to see if its not. No priority window is opened for this check.

[Khaospawn]

Good work, lorddax

[DroppinSuga]

Dax teachin n00bs like a boss

[hamfactorial]

Thanks, dax.

[lorddax]

So did end up playing in the block tourney. Bought about $28 in cards including 3 chains, 3 embers, 3 fables and 3 hundred hands.

Spot my housemate the $7 bucks to enter and we are able to borrow MBC from the judge and a couple friends.

Just able to fire with even matches thanks to housemate bumping entry to 6 players.

Lose round 1 to UG Heroic with Wavemaster & Satyr.

Win round 2 vs Minotaur tribal aggro.

House mate is 1-0-1 due to drawing round 1 and winning game 2, putting him against the only other 2-0.

Start playing g1 of round 3 vs another UG Heroic.

Wife calls and asks me to come home. I think about dropping and ask judge what the prize support is, cause I might ID or drop split.

No prize payout. . .

because its a win a box. . .

turn to housemate "Don't you dare lose motherfucker."

I'm sitting at home bout to crack a box of Theros that I effectively bought for $35
dollars

[Khaospawn]

Fuck yeah, dax

[Helios]

Nice work dax!