[Q&A] MonoRed or R/w Post Rotation Deck Ideas

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:02 pm

So, with rotation coming up, I'm losing over half the cards in my Boros Humans deck, which means I need to come up with something new. I want to get started on making the deck I'll be using for post rotation so I can make the trades I need. I've got a couple ideas. I know that we have no clue what Theros will have in it, but I still want to get a head start on it. These decks only use cards from the Return to Ravnica block and M14.

Monored Burn Shenanigans
[deck]
Creatures (16)
Blistercoil Weird x4
Young Pyromancer x4
[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] x4
Guttersnipe x4

Instants/Sorceries ( 24 )
Shock x4
Mugging x4
[
card]Turn // Burn[/card] x4
Skullcrack x4
Mizzium Mortars x4
Flames of the Firebrand x4

Lands ( 20 )
Mutavault x4
Mountain x16
[/deck]

This deck might just be cute than effective, but the idea is to burn them and get extra value from burn through Blistercoil Weird getting buffer, Young Pyromancer tokens, Guttersnipe procs, or bringing back [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card]. I've got 4 Sacred Foundry to put in if Boros Charm, [card]Warleader's Helix[/card], and [card]Aurelia's Fury[/card] would be better. I've also thought about using Ogre Battledriver in
combination with Young Pyromancer and a bunch of instants and sorceries, but it feels like that plan comes with a free ticket to Candyland.

The other deck is more of a traditional Aggro deck.

Monored Aggro
[deck]
Creatures ( 34 )
Rakdos Cackler x4
Legion Loyalist x4
Ash Zealot x4
Burning-Tree Emissary x4
Firefist Striker x4
Rakdos Shred-Freak x4
Goblin Shortcutter x2
Boros Reckoner x4
Ogre Battledriver x4

Instants/Sorceries (4)
Mugging x4

Lands (22)
Mutavault x4
Mountain x18

[b:
3kpslz2s]Alternate Plan[/b]
Mountain -2 (16 total)
Ogre Battledriver -4 (0 total)
Goblin Shortcutter +2 (4 total)
Act of Treason +4 (4 total)
[/deck]

This is more of a creature based aggro deck that tries to push through damage by stopping people from blocking with Legion Loyalist (tokens), Goblin Shortcutter, Firefist Striker, and Mugging. I'm not sure ifLegion Loyalist or Foundry Street Denizen is better for this deck. I can see the merits of both. Otherwise, it plays a bunch of hasty guys to beat face as fast as possible. Boros Reckoner is there to be a wall in the worst situations or just be another dude you'd rather not block.

I'm not sure if [
card]Ogre Battledriver[/card] is worth the time. His ability is nifty, but I don't know if he's worth it. The alternate plan is to drop down to 20 land, run primarily 3 drops, and add in Act of Treason to steal their best blocker and smack them with it. Hopefully ending the game before things get out of hand. I'm also a bit concerned that I might have too much anti-blocking hate where a couple more burn/enchantments would work better.

Which of these deck ideas do you think has the most potential to win? Any suggestions for making them better or are they both complete trash and it's back to the drawing board?

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:28 pm

Generally any time rotation is upon you, your best bet is to delve deep into the world of Block Constructed and see what's working/doing well in that format because it is a strong indicator of the direction you're going to end up needing to go in a few months.

MTGO Academy had these results all nicely laid out for us. Mono red is already a deck that's doing extremely well in Block, but I think this might be due to the fact that mono red is basically always a popular archetype on MODO due to the low cost of the deck. Even so, it is playing some of the strongest cards in the format (Burning-Tree Emissary, Ash Zealot, Boros Reckoner...) so that might also attribute to the decks' rampant play.

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:09 pm

Thanks for the answer and the link. After checking the recent RTR block constructed events and the all in monored thread, an updated aggro deck would look more like this:

Monored Aggro
[deck]
Creatures ( 36 )
Rakdos Cackler x4
Legion Loyalist x4
Ash Zealot x4
Burning-Tree Emissary x4
Firefist Striker x4
Gore-House Chainwalker x4
Goblin Shortcutter x4
Boros Reckoner x4
Rubblebelt Maaka x4

Instants/Sorceries (6)
Mizzium Mortars x2
Dynacharge x4

Lands (18)
[card]
Mutavault[/card] x2
Mountain x16
[/deck]

I derped in the earlier list thinking that Rakdos Shred-Freak was [mana]1R[/mana] instead of 2 hybrid r/b.

Drifting away from the RTR block lists, I feel like cutting Foundry Street Denizen for Goblin Shortcutter is a better move. The Denizen feels like a turn 2 bomb if you can chain BTE, but afterward he's a 1/1 and drawing one wouldn't be as useful as a Shortuctter who has at least 2 power and ETB effect can help push through damage. Then again, I could be wrong here and just go for x4 Denizen and cut Firefist Striker instead.

Running Dynacharge reminds me of when I used Righteous Charge and Rally the Peasants in my Boros deck. I usually found 3 pump spells to be sufficient when
I was playing, but I ran quite a few more spells than this. Looking at Ham's charts, 4 gives a 52% to see at least by turn 4 which is about where this will want to be.

The Rubblebelt Maaka surprised me, but I can see what they're doing. It's a red giant growth when attacking or a 3/3 for 4 in the case of flooding. However, part of me thinks that [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] might be better here. It's a 2/2 haste with flying and a bit of recursion. 6 sources to bring it back might be too few though.

Which reminds me, that first list, the burn shenanigans, tickles my inner Timmy and Johny, but the Spike in me is skeptical. Any thoughts on that game plan?

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:16 am

Now that the full Theros spoilers are released I've been running some test games with my friend's current mono-green standard deck. The results... not so hot so far. Here's a few things I've tried.

Monored BTE Fanatic

This deck didn't really didn't come together. BTE into Firefist Striker was powerful, but easily dealt with by simply have 2 blockers on the field. Fanatic really felt like a win more card as 6 or 7 damage when it ETB''d was nice, but that was usually 3 or 4 creatures on the board and I'm in a good spot there.

Monored Block Constructed Variant

This deck came together a bit better. I based it on the current block constructed monored decks. It does have the power to finish games, but getting that perfect hand of 1, 2, 2, 3, and dynachargeproved hard to do. Also, it's all in nature made is weak to life gain. Even a few points of life gain would put the game out of reach.

R/w Midrange Fliers

This deck performed the best of all of them. Switching to fliers for the 3, 4, and 5 drops helps when the ground gets stalled out. Turn 4 battalions for Firemane Avenger basically do not happen. However, turn 5 battalions into Stormbreath Dragon are frequent. With phoenix, Firemane, and the dragon, that's 12 damage, 3 heal, for a 15 life point swing. However, this strategy runs into the same problem as any battalion strategy. It's weak to removal. Removing Firemane or the dragon is enough to shut it down and the deck just putters along. The phoenix just doesn't have the
power to win the game by itself.

So all in all, it's the better version, but still not ideal.

R/w Token Burn

This deck is probably just cute, but one idea
is to take advantage of Purphoros, God of the Forge + Assemble the Legion. The idea is to get Purphoros on the field while assembling the legion. Every time a token enters the field, your opponents take 2 damage. As turns go on, it becomes 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, etc. I'm not sure how viable it would be to also thrown in [card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card]. Her +1 in this situation would be an extra 6 damage. Her -3 could also clear out powerful creatures on the other side. Sort of like another overloaded Mizzium Mortars.

The rest of the cards are in there to either be walls with Ash Zealot's 2/2 first strike, Boros Reckoner doin' his minotaur thang, or getting more value off the instants and sorceries with Young Pyromancer. If they need to, these cards can go and sneak in some damage against slow or
puttering decks.

As for the suite of burn and removal. I'm entirely sure if this would be the right load out. Spark Jolt is included for the scry 1 to help find all the combo pieces this deck would need. Magma Jet is in the same boat. x3 Chained to the Rocks is probably too much, but it's probably the best removal this deck will have. White to exile a creature is probably good. Mizzium Mortars is there for another cheap way to remove creatures from the game. There might be better spells for this set up. I haven't really tried building a controlling/burn deck before.

The last note about all of these, Scavenging Ooze is a monster card against red decks. It will be played and it is a must beat card. That card can make any green mage stabilize and then take over the game in a turn or two. Many of my decks had near wins but this card by itself would
destroy any chance I had at winning by putting him just out of reach and getting one hell of a monster on the field.

So do any of these decks look like they're on to something or have some potential to morph into something competitive? Also, are any of them obviously bad lines of play and should be dropped?

warwizard87 · Postby **warwizard87** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:46 am

Now that the full Theros spoilers are released I've been running some test games with my friend's current mono-green standard deck. The results... not so hot so far. Here's a few things I've tried.

Monored BTE Fanatic
[deck]
Creatures (30)
Firedrinker Satyr x4
Rakdos Cackler x4
Legion Loyalist x2
Burning-Tree Emissary x4
Gore-House Chainwalker x4
Firefist Striker x4
Boros Reckonerx4
Fanatic of Moegis x4

Spells (8)
[card]
Lighting Strike[/card] x4
Magma Spray x4

Land (22)
Mountain21
Mutavaultx1
[/deck]
This deck didn't really didn't come together. BTE into Firefist Striker was powerful, but easily dealt with by simply have 2 blockers on the field. Fanatic really felt like a win more card as 6 or 7 damage when it ETB''d was nice, but that was usually 3 or 4 creatures on the board and I'm in a good spot there.

Monored Block Constructed Variant
[deck]
Creatures (30)
Firedrinker Satyr x4
Rakdos Cackler x4
Legion Loyalist x2
Burning-Tree Emissary x4
Gore-House Chainwalker x4
Firefist Striker x4
[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card:
pmcbvrx6] x4
Boros Reckoner x3

Spells (8)
Lighting Strike x4
Magma Spray x4
Dynachargex3

Land (20)
Mountain19
Mutavaultx1
[/deck]
This deck came together a bit better. I based it on the current block constructed monored decks. It does have the power to finish games, but getting that perfect hand of 1, 2, 2, 3, and dynachargeproved hard to do. Also, it's all in nature made is weak to life gain. Even a few points of life gain would put the game out of reach.

R/w Midrange Fliers
[deck]
Creatures (26)
Firedrinker Satyr x4
Rakdos Cackler x4
Ash Zealot x4
[card]Young Pyromancer[/card:
pmcbvrx6] x4
[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] x4
Firemane Avenger x4
Stormbreath Dragon x2

Spells (11)
Lighting Strike x4
Magma Spray x4
Hammer of Purphoros x2
Boros Charm x1

Land (23)
Sacred Foundry x4
Mountain16
Plainsx4
Mutavaultx1
[/deck]
This deck performed the best of all of them. Switching to fliers for the 3, 4, and 5 drops helps when the ground gets stalled out. Turn 4 battalions for Firemane Avenger basically do not happen. However, turn 5 battalions into Stormbreath Dragon are frequent. With phoenix, Firemane, and the dragon, that's 12 damage, 3 heal, for a 15 life point swing. However, this strategy runs into the
same problem as any battalion strategy. It's weak to removal. Removing Firemane or the dragon is enough to shut it down and the deck just putters along. The phoenix just doesn't have the power to win the game by itself.

So all in all, it's the better version, but still not ideal.

R/w Token Burn
[deck]
Creatures (14)
Ash Zealot x4
Young Pyromancer x3
Boros Reckoner x4
Purphoros, God of the Forge x3

Spells (21)
Spark Jolt x4
[cards]Chained to the Rocks[/cards] x3
Lighting Strike x4
Magma Spray x4
Mizzium Mortars x2
Assemble The Legion x4

Land (25)
Sacred Foundry x4
[card]Temple of
Triumph[/card] x4
Mountain x15
Plainsx2
[/deck]
This deck is probably just cute, but one idea is to take advantage of Purphoros, God of the Forge + Assemble the Legion. The idea is to get Purphoros on the field while assembling the legion. Every time a token enters the field, your opponents take 2 damage. As turns go on, it becomes 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, etc. I'm not sure how viable it would be to also thrown in [card]Elspeth, Sun's Champion[/card]. Her +1 in this situation would be an extra 6 damage. Her -3 could also clear out powerful creatures on the other side. Sort of like another overloaded Mizzium Mortars.

The rest of the cards are in there to either be walls with Ash Zealot's 2/2 first strike, Boros Reckoner doin' his minotaur
thang, or getting more value off the instants and sorceries with Young Pyromancer. If they need to, these cards can go and sneak in some damage against slow or puttering decks.

As for the suite of burn and removal. I'm entirely sure if this would be the right load out. Spark Jolt is included for the scry 1 to help find all the combo pieces this deck would need. Magma Jet is in the same boat. x3 Chained to the Rocks is probably too much, but it's probably the best removal this deck will have. White to exile a creature is probably good. Mizzium Mortars is there for another cheap way to remove creatures from the game. There might be better spells for this set up. I haven't really tried building a controlling/burn deck before.

The last note about all of these, Scavenging Ooze is a monster card against red decks. It
will be played and it is a must beat card. That card can make any green mage stabilize and then take over the game in a turn or two. Many of my decks had near wins but this card by itself would destroy any chance I had at winning by putting him just out of reach and getting one hell of a monster on the field.

So do any of these decks look like they're on to something or have some potential to morph into something competitive? Also, are any of them obviously bad lines of play and should be dropped?

cards like Ooze is why I am playing fanatic, often fanatic will come in at blow them out and end the game.

The list I am pack ATM is a combo of your first 2 decks

[deck]Creatures

4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
3 Fanatic of Moegsi

Spells

4 Lighting Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Dynacharge
2 Dragon Mantle

Land

18 Mountain
3 Mutavault[/deck]

I been trying to fit in Chandras Phoenix
but not sure were to fit it in. I been using Dynacharge as a psudo shock, that can do mass damage, helps kill the 0/3 hexproof wall and strong with the first strikers . not sure if it should just be another Dragon Mantel or Titan's Strength . Dyna has the ability to end the game if overloaded, but Strength has scry and is better for pumping 1 guy. I find the Fanatic is one of the best ways to end the game, often 5+ damage ends the game the turn it looks like they were stabilizing.

I do feel dragon mantel is the real deal though, that card is our new stonewright.

Yarpus · Postby **Yarpus** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:25 am

Dragon Mantle is an enchantment. It's never gonna be close to Stonewright.
Stonewright was cool because you could.

T1: Stonewright
T2: Ash Zealot; Swing for 3;
T3: Swing for 6; opponent kills Ash Zealot;
T4: Ash Zealot; swing for 5;
Mantle is nowhere close. It can't be played T1 and stay on the field waiting for other creatures to pump.
Really, guis, it's a trap.

After playing Fanatic, I'd want to re-evaluate Purphoros. Hey, it's not that harsh to pump 4-5 damage from Fanatic. Especially with 2 maindeck Hammers. What about putting 2x Purphoros into red decks?

warwizard87 · Postby **warwizard87** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:38 pm

i disagree, is it as good as stonewright? nope sadly. it replaces its self. Is a great mana sink and it does what we want it to do which is use mana more effectively. The fact it replaces its self by cantriping makes it pretty nice since we cant just get blown out by a removal spell.

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:24 am

So tested a few more variant, first that cute deck from above. It did all right. It definitely didn't have that right mix of spells but the kill combo of red go + assemble the legion never came out. So, for now, it's just cute. Maybe some three color deck can do it (UWR? Naya?)

So then I saw Johnny_Spike's deck in the clan thread:

This worked out, much, much better. I rarely saw multiple hammers in any of hands. The mana was stable too, I had a couple issues where I couldn't play Reckoner on turn 3, but that was maybe 1 or 2 games out of 10. One thing I did notice is that I flooded out fairly often. The sinks were useful, but depending on board state, there still might not be anything to do with it (Mutavault would be suicide or no hammer on the field).

The hammer was great. Sacing land is a bit of art, but definitely solid. The global haste made late game 1 and 2 drops into shocks, lighting strikes, or in the case of firefist striker, a shock and tapping down a blocker.

Also, I take back what I said about Fanatic of Mogis being a win more card. That card put quite a few games into reach. I've had it nuke for 9 and 12 without too much difficulty. If the hammer is out, it's even better.
n
I'm not sure how exactly to refine the deck further, but 1 more Fanatic of Mogis seems about right. I could also see running +1 reckoner as well. After that reducing the number of hammers and land. With this the deck still only has 3 cards over the cost of 4 and 22 land should be enough to hit it.

I might try something like:

+1 Boros Reckoner
+1 Fanatic of Moegis
-1 Hammer of Purphorous
-1 Mutavault or Mountain (Not sure which one, but I'm leaning toward -1 Mutavault, there' s a lot of sinks in the deck as it is)

Platypus · Postby **Platypus** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:29 am

^If you add a Reckoner then drop a Mutavault instead of a Mountain, no question about it.

warwizard87 · Postby **warwizard87** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:01 am

I have been bouncing my build all over the damn place so far I think this is the core of RDWS right now, still not sure what proper formula is

[deck]

4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary

4 Lighting Strike
4 Magma Jet

1-2 Hammer of Purphorous
2-4 Fanatic of Moegis

21-24 lands in mix of mountain and Mutavault
[/deck]

after that it gets hazy on numbers and card choices it seems these are most common options.
0-4 Boros reckoner
0-4Ash Zealot
0-4 [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card]
XDragon Mantel
X Dynacharge
0-4 Gore-Clan Chain Walker

EDIT: apparently in the deck brackets it will auto put 4 if you don't put a number there odd.

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:57 pm

I can go along with that mostly, things I've found:

Legion Loyalist - I want to like this card, but I had better success when I took him out. His battalion is an amazing effect, but 8 one drops is usually enough to get 1 in the opening. I think the 4 slots could be better spent somewhere else. Although, thinking about it, he might be necessary in an AIR deck featuring Dynacharge.

Stormbreath Dragon - I think this guys deserves to be a common option. Probably some number at 23-25 lands go with him.

Chandra, Pyromaster - She should be on the table. I haven't done too much testing with her yet, but the card advantage is useful. Her +1 to remove a blocker and ping is pretty brutal with Firefist Striker. She might be more of a card in a deck that runs the dragon.

[
card]Young Pyromancer[/card] - I haven't had much success with him. He's able to make burn more efficient, but seems lack luster in BTE chains. I'd almost always rather have Gore-House Chainwalker for 3 damage or Firefist Striker preventing opponents from blocking.

Gore-House Chainwalker - From my testing, this is the 3rd BTE chain target. I've found putting a 3/2 on the board now is better than potentially getting a couple of 1/1 tokens over the course of the game.

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:22 pm

From testing, you want 3-4 Fanatics. That card is a beast win it hits the field and if you have the Hammer in play when it drops, oh boyyyyy.

warwizard87 · Postby **warwizard87** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:38 pm

I can go along with that mostly, things I've found:

Legion Loyalist - I want to like this card, but I had better success when I took him out. His battalion is an amazing effect, but 8 one drops is usually enough to get 1 in the opening. I think the 4 slots could be better spent somewhere else. Although, thinking about it, he might be necessary in an AIR deck featuring Dynacharge.

Stormbreath Dragon - I think this guys deserves to be a common option. Probably some number at 23-25 lands go with him.

Chandra, Pyromaster - She should be on the table. I haven't done too much testing with her yet, but the card advantage is useful. Her +1 to
remove a blocker and ping is pretty brutal with Firefist Striker. She might be more of a card in a deck that runs the dragon.

Young Pyromancer - I haven't had much success with him. He's able to make burn more efficient, but seems lack luster in BTE chains. I'd almost always rather have Gore-House Chainwalker for 3 damage or Firefist Striker preventing opponents from blocking.

Gore-House Chainwalker - From my testing, this is the 3rd BTE chain target. I've found putting a 3/2 on the board now is better than potentially getting a couple of 1/1 tokens over the course of the game.

I ment gore-house...I typoed lol. I don't like young at all in the deck, she hasn't been good for me at all sadly. Chandra and the Dragon are both possible. The list I compiled is from most of what I have seen people list and from my own testing,
personaly I have 4 fanatics cuz he is nutty but the numbers for him are all over the place but it is obv some is right. As for LL almost every list rocks four just seems to be a core card. Decks mostly play four and only a few play 0 and some very few play two.

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:21 pm

No worries about the Gore-House guy, I thought he was Gore-Clan for the longest time.

I can definitely go along with 3 to 4 Fanatic of Mogis. He's a lot stronger than my experimentation with Kessig Malcontents that I did with my W/r humans deck. I often found myself only pinging for 2 - 5 with the malcontents even in the best of circumstances. The fanatic easily can burn for 3 to 7 reliably. ( 3 with 1 Burning-Tree Emissary, 4 with a Boros Reckoner, 6 with both).

I'm still trying to figure out whether [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] or Boros Reckoner should be the 3 drop. The Phoenix has haste, reach, evasion, recursion, and plays nice with turn 3 mutavaults. Boros Reckoner has 3 power,
psuedo-evasion through damage redirect and optional first strike, and 1 more devotion to red.

Also a thought came to me, Dragon Mantle might be tech in a deck that runs Ash Zealot. Fire breathing and first strike is a potent combo and with enough open mana, basically lets her kill any creature on the board profitably. Reckoner, the phoenix, and the dragon are probably the other good targets to put it on. It doesn't feel at home in BTE decks because you'll get get 2 for 1'd by any creature with more than 1 power.

JWarson88 · Postby **JWarson88** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:48 am

Has anyone tested with Haunted Plate Mail? My testing has been limited as I'm testing three different mono red builds, and to top it off I'm only able to test on cockatrice atm. My initial observations have been that it prefers a Control shell such as Kuroda red. I've been having trouble finding the preferred 4 drop beyond mogis and chandra. Chandra is awesome but mogis hasn't worked well for me since I'm looking primarily building midrange decks.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:19 am

I played it a lot in GB, it isn't that good.

Ascension · Postby **Ascension** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:33 pm

Now that the full Theros spoilers are released I've been running some test games with my friend's current mono-green standard deck. The results... not so hot so far. Here's a few things I've tried.

Monored BTE Fanatic
[deck]
Creatures (30)
Firedrinker Satyr x4
Rakdos Cackler x4
Legion Loyalist x2
Burning-Tree Emissary x4
Gore-House Chainwalker x4
Firefist Striker x4
Boros Reckonerx4
Fanatic of Moegis x4

Spells (8)
[card]Lighting Strike[/
card] x4
Magma Spray x4

Land (22)
Mountain21
Mutavaultx1
[/deck]
This deck didn't really didn't come together. BTE into Firefist Striker was powerful, but easily dealt with by simply have 2 blockers on the field. Fanatic really felt like a win more card as 6 or 7 damage when it ETB''d was nice, but that was usually 3 or 4 creatures on the board and I'm in a good spot there.

If you have Mogis on the play you don't have to worry about playing around the wrath from U/W if you just curve out beat face, and then drop him for game. I'd also probably cut Legion Loyalist for the Hammer of Purphorus let's all your lands be Hellion Crucible.

DerWille · Postby **DerWille** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:12 am

I forgot to post it here, but a newer list looks like this

Mono-Red BTE Fanatic

[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] has been strictly better than [
card]Boros Reckoner[/card]. It doubles lines of play that get a turn 3 Firefist Striker battalion trigger which drastically changes how much damage gets through on turns 3 and 4.

I personally like 3 hammers instead of 2. I also prefer 3 Fanatics instead of 4, but I'd need to do so more testing to really make sure. One thing I have found is that Hammer and Fanatic work well with each other. On an empty board the Fanatic comes down for 3 and then swings for 4.

I'm also not sure if Fanatic is better than Chandra, Pyromaster. I'm leaning toward no. The CA and removing a blocker seems like it'd be better than maybe blasting your opponent for 6 or 7.

Keru_Shiri · Postby **Keru_Shiri** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:27 pm

[DECK]Lands (22)
16 x Mountain
2x Mutavault
4x Sacred Foundry

Creatures (22)
4x Ash Zealot
4x Boros Cackler
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Firedrinker Satyr
4x Foundry Street Denizen
2x Young Pyromancer

Spells (14)
2x Hammer of Purphoros
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
4x Shock

Planeswalkers (2)
2x Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Peak Eruption
2x Purphoros, God of the Forge
3x Spark Jolt
3x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Wear // Tear[/DECK]I think I'm going to give this a whirl and see how it tests this week. Reports as I get them (I hope this is the right thread).

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:27 pm

Don't see any real issues with the list, just a couple of things I'd do differently:
1. Less 1-drops: 12 is 2-4 too many for a deck that wants to curve up to 4cc.
2. More creatures: I consider 22 a little light for a deck like this and would like to see that number be closer to 24-28.
3. Boros Reckoner: I prefer Phoenix in this slot MD with Reckoner in the side because Phoenix is good against everything while Reckoner only shines against Aggro and non black Midrange.
4. Young Pyromancer: Just doesn't do a lot with only 12 Instant/Sorcery spells (4 of which - Shock - are pretty low-power). I think you'd be happier dropping Shock and YP for higher-impact creatures.

Mind walking me through the SB strategy? I guess Anger is for the mirror or GW possibly, but I think there are better ways to hedge against those MUs like Mortars. Stormbreath looks like a wasted slot since you'll have real trouble casting it on only 22
lands and Spark Jolt just seems incredibly low-impact.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:08 pm

So this is what I've come up with and hope to test on MTGO when Theros releases:

[DECK]
Lands (22)
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Creatures (24)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler

Spells (14)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars

Sideboard (15)
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Burning Earth
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mutavault
2 Peak Eruption
2 Stormbreath Dragon
[/DECK]

Opinions? Advice?

EDIT: I'm considering replacing 2 Fanatics with 2 Member Swallower

Keru_Shiri · Postby **Keru_Shiri** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:12 pm

@redthirst: Certainly!

Sideboard choices: Stormbreath and Purphoros were included because I wanted to playtest a variety of curve-toppers to see how they played against other predicted decks. Chandra just seemed to be the best against an unkown meta (mainly due to the card draw) so I included her in the main.

Peak Eruption was to be used against Boros decks to blow up Chained targets, or punish greedy manabases and poor mulligans (it seems like Boros might be a frequent deck for people to drift into, between Heroic and Minotaurs). Both this and Spark Jolt are candidates to be cut.

Wear//Tear seemed like a good utility card. It is the only reason I run Sacred Foundry, and after trimming to 2, I wonder if 4 Foundry in the main is too much, but I'm going to playtest this list first before making any changes.

Anger just seemed too good not to include in the 75 somewhere.

As for the rest of
your suggestions, they seem pretty sound. I'm a fan of both Big Red & Sligh type strategies so I think I sometimes cross one deck into the other without focusing on a direction.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:39 pm

I'm a fan of both Big Red & Sligh type strategies so I think I sometimes cross one deck into the other without focusing on a direction.

Me too. That's why my initial list is meant to transform from Sligh to Big Red post SB:

[deck]Creatures: 24
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells: 13
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands: 23
4 Mutavault
19 Mountain

Sideboard: 15
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Mountain
3 ?
[/deck]

Ash Zealot could be GHC, but I like it as-is - I could also run 20 Mountain, 3 Mutavault to make the deck a little more consistent.

Against Aggro
or Midrange you drop the 12 lowest impact spells (8 one-drops and Firefist Striker or BTE/Burn respectively) for 4 Mortars, 4 Reckoner, 3 Stormbreath, and 1 Mountain.

Against Control, you should already have a good MU, but you could drop Striker for 3 dragons and a Mountain or the 3 mystery SB cards.

Speaking of mystery SB cards, how does Mindsparker look like it'll measure up in the upcomming meta?

Shardoon · Postby **Shardoon** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:48 pm

or the 3 mystery SB cards.

Speaking of mystery SB cards, how does Mindsparker look like it'll measure up in the upcomming meta?

3 mystery sideboard cards can be ratchet bombs maybe

I'm looking at Mindsparker too - first strike is something, but I'm not sure no evasion and no haste makes it better than my Phoenix or Reckoner even with the pain for blue and white.

Keru_Shiri · Postby **Keru_Shiri** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:41 pm

I like your list, Redthirst. If my current one doesn't pan out, I'll probably adopt a list very close to yours.

Haven't had a chance to test much with Mindsparker. I also wonder if Burning Earth could be made to work in some of the more Big Red variants.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:49 pm

I was also considering Mindsparker. Then I started asking questions like:

Will it even resolve?
If it does resolve, how many activations will I get out of it?
Am I willing to spend 3 mana on (worst case) 2 points of damage?

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:55 pm

Am I willing to spend 3 mana on (worst case) 2 points of damage?

2 damage and a 1-for-1 - big difference.

Self Medicated · Postby **Self Medicated** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:58 pm

Am I willing to spend 3 mana on (worst case) 2 points of damage?
2 damage and a 1-for-1 - big difference.

True dat. My other question is if UW will be a thing? If not, and we're seeing a lot of UB decks, it might not be worth it.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:10 pm

Am I willing to spend 3 mana on (worst case) 2 points of damage?
2 damage and a 1-for-1 - big difference.
True dat. My other question is if UW will be a thing? If not, and we're seeing a lot of UB decks, it might not be worth it.

That's why I ask, if it's just going to come out and get Doom Bladed then it's no better than any other creature and not worth the SB slot,
but then, what is going to be good against 2-color control that I can run as a 3-of?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

UB doesn't have life gain, so it's not as pressing an issue.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:46 pm

So... is there something to SB there, or do I just say "fuck it" and ride the MD to real ultimate victory?

Threaten effects for the Demon perhaps?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:17 pm

That's my current plan.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:28 pm

Which one?

Raw dog it MD or Threaten?

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:30 pm

SB threatens.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:34 pm

"3 mana: lose a blocker and take 6" does look like somewhere I want to be.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:44 pm

It's a lot more than six.

redthirst · Postby **redthirst** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:45 pm

Only six from the Threaten. Unless you count the damage the creature it would have blocked does too.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:23 pm

Well yeah, that's the real value of the card. Often a Desecration Demon or w/e will be blocking 1-3 guys. It's not uncommon to draw Act of Treason for your turn and then immediately lethal them. Done it heaps on stream with the trusty old Zealous Conscripts (and I only ever ran two of those!).

Shardoon · Postby **Shardoon** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:10 pm

Watching Z and redthirst post and respond is like listening to the two voices speaking to one another from inside an insane red wizard's head. And it's awesome!

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