[Primer] RDW

[RedNihilist]

I really don't know what to bring tomorrow evening.
In the last two weeks I've played 2 drafts, a FNM with a Grixis Control (UB control derivative) and a Modern Tournament with a RG Tron that a friend let me borrow.

This just to say that I've lost my grip on RDW, which is always the best deck around ( ).

I think I'll try to build around the following shell:
[deck]
Creatures
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Hellrider
0 Boros Reckoner
0 Pyreheart Wolf

Burn
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
0 Shock
0 Brimstone Volley
0 Flames of the Firebrand

Sexy Ladies
0 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands
3 Mutavault
Mountain

SIDEBOARD
0 Burning Earth
0 Spare cards
[/deck]

First considerations (brainstorming):
Right now I'm boarding 24 creatures and
8 burn spells.
This is the first RDW build I'm putting together using YP, so I'm probably going to misplay anyway, as I've played with it only in a more spell-heavy lists similar to Travis Woo Izzet Blitz.

The burn compartment is probably too light at the moment (we do want have a deck working around YP and Phoenix, don't we?), so I guess we want at least 12-15 spells... Chandra works well with Phoenixes, but I'm not sure she could steal burn slots.
Also, playing her may not be too compatible with my usual 22 lands and 4 Hellriders, I guess I'll have to bid farewell to one of them and get down to 3.

23 creatures + 22 lands takes us to 45, which leaves 15 burn slots - I guess the number could make sense.

Now, I want to spend my non-working time testing out Chandra, so I'll just put her in a 2-of, 8 slots are reserved for Searing Spear and Pillar of Flame (my meta features Voices, Phoenixes and Strangleroot Geists, so I'd rather avoid boarding less than 4 of them in my G1) = 10 reserved
slots.
I'd try to have the other 5 cards be 3 Shocks (cheap, instant) + 2 Volleys.

Cards I won't play ATM:
Pyreheart Wolf: I love him, but I think it's time to move on. I'm boarding less creatures now, so he'd probably underperform.
Firefist Striker - Lightning Mauler: X/1, they need other creatures to work well, they are first choices in BTE builds but I'm trying to brew something different.
BTE: Ash Zealot is WAY prettier than you, sister.

Cards I'd like to play, BUT:
Boros Reckoner: Yeah, nice and everything, but it doesn't work well with Mutavaults and he's overall quite slow. Could get in the sideboard, though.
Stonewright: There's a voice inside my head that keeps saying that he could do wonders with Ash Zealot / Phoenix / post-Verdict Mutavaults. It's too early to have such thoughts, though.
Mizzium Mortars: Sorcery, can't go for the dome. First sideboard choice.
Flames of the Firebrand: I'm trying to have more reach with BSV. I can't say I'm not going back on this card in
the near future, though.

[RedNihilist]

Couldn't test AT ALL (thank you, ISP).

I'll test during the FNM.

[Yarpus]

Stonewright is actually terrible with Mutavault. When you activate Muta, it doesn't enter the field - so the only way you can pair Muta with Stonewright is activating Muta and THEN playing Stonewright - so as long as Muta is a creature (ends EOT), they are connected.

[RedNihilist]

The only scenery where I could see Stonewright paired with Mutavault is after a Verdict, of course.
Yet I >know< it's very nice with Ash Zealot and Phoenix.

I decided to let them out, though.

Tonight I've played the following:
[deck]
Creatures
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Hellrider

Burn
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
3 Shock
2 Brimstone Volley

Sexy Ladies
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands
3 Mutavault
19 Mountain

SIDEBOARD
3 Burning Earth
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Hound of Griselbrand
[/deck]

Pyromancer HEAVILY underperformed (I've seldomly drawed them, only played one in order to chumpblock and defend Chandra) while Phoenix and Ash Zealot put REALLY lots of pressure on the opponent.
Also, a recurring Phoenix is a nightmare for the opponent.
Also, Hounds are just a mistake (I only boarded them
against a Dega Midrange, I've never drawed them and never missed them), Burning Earths would have been REALLY useful if only I managed to draw them at least once over the course of the 5 post-board games I've played.
Also, having an opponent keeping an Hellkite on the defense in order to avoid dying to your double Phoenix, while you have BSV in hand sounds really like INEVITABILITY.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I took a week off from FNM because I was frusteated after scrubbing out at the gp. Seems to be just want that doctor ordered. Went 3-0 (for third place because of breakers) at fnm this week. Wins vs bant cuntrol (2-0), the aristocrars (2-1), and naya midrange (2-0). Felt good to have some good draws and beat some unfavourable matchups. Didn't hit my third land in any of the games vs aristocrats, but when you draw all the pillars tgey are sunk. He was rocking the WCC Top 8 mat, so not a scrub. Actually, 3 people from my LGS made day 2 at the GP and one top 8'd, so not a bad group. Today I'm taking some of my friends who only play casually to the magic celenration. Should be fun.

[Str1fe5]

about to try my first 8-man with this kind of deck

[deck]
Lands
21 Mountain

Creatures
4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firefist Striker
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers
1 Chandra Pyromaster

Spells
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Shock
4 Searing Spear
2 Brimstone Volley

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Burning Earth
1 Chandra Pyromaster
2 Skullcrack
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Curse of the Pierced Heart
[/deck]

[zemanjaski]

Looks good to me. Good luck!

[LP, of the Fires]

If you're modo-ing, I think maindecking reckoners is better then not. It's a generic 3/3 in a lot of matchups, but it's the best thing ever vs. opposing agro decks, specifically red ones.

[LP, of the Fires]

The only scenery where I could see Stonewright paired with Mutavault is after a Verdict, of course.
Yet I >know< it's very nice with Ash Zealot and Phoenix.

I decided to let them out, though.

Tonight I've played the following:
[deck]
Creatures
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Hellrider

Burn
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
3 Shock
2 Brimstone Volley

Sexy Ladies
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands
3 Mutavault
19 Mountain

SIDEBOARD
3 Burning Earth
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
3 Volcanic Strength
3 Hound of Griselbrand
[/deck]

Pyromancer HEAVILY underperformed (I've seldomly drawed them, only played one in order to chumpblock and defend Chandra) while Phoenix
and Ash Zealot put REALLY lots of pressure on the opponent.
Also, a recurring Phoenix is a nightmare for the opponent.
Also, Hounds are just a mistake (I only boarded them against a Dega Midrange, I've never drawed them and never missed them), Burning Earths would have been REALLY useful if only I managed to draw them at least once over the course of the 5 post-board games I've played.
Also, having an opponent keeping an Hellkite on the defense in order to avoid dying to your double Phoenix, while you have BSV in hand sounds really like INEVITABILITY.

This is more or less my deck with the only change being the shock/volley numbers being switched. The thing with pyromancer is in the games it doesn't do anything, it's still a 2 power beater(similar to BTE), but when it is doing things, it just takes over games. I was playing against Golgari Mid(Charlie murphy!!!) and was flooding, but do to pyro, I was able to chump block his messenger and scavenging oozes on critical turns while he
was mana-screwed and chip away with Chandra's phoenix till I drew a lethal searing spear.

[Lightning_Dolt]

So now that we have the whole spoiler, I think it's safe to talk about rotation. I think RDW is going to be the deck to beat out of the gates, the same way Zombies was last time this year. We don't really lose much, and maybe even gain depending on how Firedrinker Satyr and Magma Jet pan out. The card I'll miss most is Hellrider. Goodnight sweet prince. Fanatic of Morgis might be the new rider, and I look forward to testing him. I also worry about Voice of Resurgence being a problem with no Pillar of Flame to keep it in check. We might have to board Annihilating Fire... The red mage will soldier on. That said, this will
be my initial post rotation build:

[deck]Creatures (24)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (14)
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
18 Mountains

Sideboard (15)
3 Burning Earth
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skull Crack
4 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Act of Treason[/deck]

Cookie Cutter... I know, but it's a starting point.

I will also test Ash Zealot variants with this as a starting point:

[deck]Creatures (23)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Morgis

Spells (14)
4 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
19 Mountains

Sideboard (15)
3 Burning Earth
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skull Crack
4 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Act of Treason[/deck]

Lastly, a more devotion-centric build that
might be worthwhile:

[deck]Creatures (26)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Morgis
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells (11)
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
3 Hammer of Purohorous

Lands (23)
21 Mountains
2 Nyxthos, Shrine to Nxy

Sideboard (15)
3 Burning Earth
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skull Crack
4 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Act of Treason[/deck]

This one will obviously need a LOT more tuning.

Looking forward to the pre-release. Happy hunting boys.

[warwizard87]

what I am testing right now.

[deck]Creatures

4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
3 Fanatic of Moegsi

Spells

4 Lighting Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Dynacharge
2 Dragon Mantle

Land

18 Mountain
3 Mutavault[/deck]

I been trying to fit in Chandras Phoenix but not sure were to fit it in. I been using Dynacharge as a psudo shock, that can do mass damage, helps kill the 0/3 hexproof wall and strong with the first strikers . not sure if it should just be another Dragon Mantel or Titan's Strength . Dyna has the ability to end the game if overloaded, but Strength has scry and is better for pumping 1 guy. I find the Fanatic is one of the best ways to end the game, often 5+ damage ends the game the turn it looks like they were stabilizing.

I do feel dragon mantel is the real deal though, that card is our new stonewright.
I know
yarpus don't like the Mantel but i am likeing it a lot.

[Lightning_Dolt]

what I am testing right now.

[deck]Creatures

4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
3 Fanatic of Moegsi

Spells

4 Lighting Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Dynacharge
2 Dragon Mantle

Land

18 Mountain
3 Mutavault[/deck]

I been trying to fit in Chandras Phoenix but not sure were to fit it in. I been using Dynacharge as a psudo shock, that can do mass damage, helps kill the 0/3 hexproof wall and strong with the first strikers . not sure if it should just be another Dragon Mantel or Titan's Strength . Dyna has the ability to end the game if overloaded, but Strength has scry and is better for pumping 1 guy. I find the Fanatic is one of the best ways to end the game,
often 5+ damage ends the game the turn it looks like they were stabilizing.

I do feel dragon mantel is the real deal though, that card is our new stonewright.
I know yarpus don't like the Mantel but i am likeing it a lot.

Fanatic is probably too slow, since this is a All-In kind of deck. The loss of Lightning Mauler hurts too. You might want to explore Weapon Surge as well.

[Platypus]

Johnny_Spike, I like those three decks above. But BTE in the third one looks a bit out of place. You have eight creatures you can't chain to it on the second and third turn. If you want to keep the double R for devotion, how about Frostburn Weird or Rakdos Shred-Freak instead?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Johnny_Spike, I like those three decks above. But BTE in the third one looks a bit out of place. You have eight creatures you can't chain to it on the second and third turn. If you want to keep the double R for devotion, how about Frostburn Weird or Rakdos Shred-Freak instead?

Not a fan of Frostburn Wierd, but Shred Freak is s good idea.

[warwizard87]

what I am testing right now.

[deck]Creatures

4 Rackdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyer
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Ash Zealot
3 Fanatic of Moegsi

Spells

4 Lighting Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Dynacharge
2 Dragon Mantle

Land

18 Mountain
3 Mutavault[/deck]

I been trying to fit in Chandras Phoenix but not sure were to fit it in. I been using Dynacharge as a psudo shock, that can do mass damage, helps kill the 0/3 hexproof wall and strong with the first strikers . not sure if it should just be another Dragon Mantel or Titan's
Strength . Dyna has the ability to end the game if overloaded, but Strength has scry and is better for pumping 1 guy. I find the Fanatic is one of the best ways to end the game, often 5+ damage ends the game the turn it looks like they were stabilizing.

I do feel dragon mantel is the real deal though, that card is our new stonewright.
I know yarpus don't like the Mantel but i am likeing it a lot.

Fanatic is probably too slow, since this is a All-In kind of deck. The loss of Lightning Mauler hurts too. You might want to explore Weapon Surge as well.

I ended up taking out the dynacharges last night and added another mantle and a land, the fanatic is insane.

[Gigex]

Would a 2/2 split of chandra and the fanatic work here? Or do you guys think chandra just doesn't lend well to the "honey badger-like" aggressiveness of this deck?

[Link]

I thought more last night and I think a 4/4 split between Fanatic and Chandra is fine between MB and SB.


Fanatic main just to WTFPWN overwhelm some decks, bringing in chandra 1-1 for fanatic against those pesky control decks with 1-1 removals and desecration demons.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I thought more last night and I think a 4/4 split between Fanatic and Chandra is fine between MB and SB.


Fanatic main just to WTFPWN overwhelm some decks, bringing in chandra 1-1 for fanatic against those pesky control decks with 1-1 removals and desecration demons.

I look foward to a format without as much annoying life gain. People thought the format was going to slow. I think it might be hyper aggro with Red, White, Black and Green all being possible aggro decks.

That said, I only want 2x Chandra. Burning Earth is still a card and will be good against esper, which looks like the best control decks.

Fanatic has been insane then goldfishing, hitting for 4-7 damage. I think a lot of games will be over on T4 thanks to this guy /
less lifegain.

However, I do worry about the White Weenie m/u. All their first strike / protection cards will likely prove problematic.

I personally thing Boros might be worth looking at to get the best of both worlds.

[LP, of the Fires]

What white cards have protection?

I literally don't know.

[zemanjaski]

Every WW brew I see looks terrible. If it ever becomes popular, Flames and Chandra just leaves them with Fiendslayer, which you can block down.

Same as last season really; if we're unprepared it's tough, if you dedicate some slots it's VERY onsided our way.

[DerWille]

What white cards have protection?

I literally don't know.

Brave the Elements is the number one contender.

[Lightning_Dolt]

And the new one that scrys. I think mono-white heroic might be a thing.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Also, Soldier of the Pantheon could be a pain. It kills cackler / BTE / Shread Freaj / chumps reckoner without breaking a sweat.

[zemanjaski]

If only we had mono-coloured cards that could kill it...damn you WotC!

Anyway, going to be progressively updating the primer over the next two weeks. *yay*

[Khaospawn]

Anyway, going to be progressively updating the primer over the next two weeks. *yay*

Looking forward to see what you do to the Primer of all Mono Red Primers, aka "The Book of Zem."

[windstrider]

If only we had mono-coloured cards that could kill it...damn you WotC!

Well, fuck. No wonder I had to spend all that money on a playset of Lightning Strike.

Anyway, going to be progressively updating the primer over the next two weeks. *yay*

Good stuff.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Maybe he just had good draws, but Brad Nelson's white weenie was pretty beastly. He beat GerryT 4-1 in the most recent vs video. Perhaps I'm worrying too much.

[zemanjaski]

Yup.

It's just a personal thing, but comments that 'miss the forest for the trees' irk me. I have no faith in those SCG videos at all.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Yup.

It's just a personal thing, but comments that 'miss the forest for the trees' irk me. I have no faith in those SCG videos at all.

They're entertaining, and every now and then an aristocrats act 2 or junk aristocrats comes from it.

The videos are less valuable than a stream though, that's for sure.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I was also way more worried about Blind Obedience than I should have been if you remember.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I've been playing competitive games at a high level since I was 14; you get a knack knowing what's really relevant after a while.

[Helios]

[Lightning_Dolt]

Won FNM tonight. Wins VS UWR (2-1), UW (2-1) and RDW (2-0).

Was nice, but I'm sad to box the Hellriders and Stromkirk Nobles.

Dusted off Gore House Chainwalker in anticipation of next week, and he played really well.

Highlight of the night was VS UWR control.

T4: Chandra, Pyromaster +1, gets [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]ed
T5: 0 Flip Burning Earth, play it.
T6: 0 Flip Hellrider, Play it for the concession.

[zemanjaski]

Guess she isn't as bad as you thought

[Lightning_Dolt]

Guess she isn't as bad as you thought

She has her moments, but I still think she's a two of in the sideboard kind of card. Definately the strongest Chandra, but no Koth.

[hamfactorial]

Koth is hard to top! He's a great finisher in my Modern deck where Chandra is often a cheaper Staff of Nin. I run both because I'm a maniac.

[zemanjaski]

Don't mention Koth. I'm sad now.

[hamfactorial]

Don't be sad, play Koth!

[beautox]

I came to this form from seeing posts on MTGS I posted this list here and got some feedback from zemanjaski would love some more insightful discussion and thoughts.

This RDW is built off a nearly identical mana curve as https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/ ... t08/top8dl RDW that Michael Jacob piloted, which featured FoD and Demigod of revenge and of course Skred, during its reign it was one of my favorite build out. It was resilient and one of my favorite decks to go head to head against faeries with, a true challenge for any pilot.

I think the card base is available in standard again all though the names, costs, speeds and effects have changed slightly the core philosphies remained largely intact. I'm going to compare past to present.

Creatures:
1CC
Figure of Destiny vs. Firedrinker Satyr -
here its clear what the superior card is but having a better jackal pup in standard at this slot isnt' anything to scoff at, both are mana sinks but in my experience firedrinker isn't a terrible top deck late game.

Magus of the Scroll vs. Rakdos Cackler - Again the original wins out here but Cackler is the best we have available to us and it has shown its relevance time and time again.

2CC
Blood Knight vs. Ash Zealot - Zealot appears to be the best red two drop creature ever.

3CC
Ashenmoor Gouger vs. Boros Reckoner - Gouger and even Ramgang for that matter had their respective times to shine, but Reckoner is a house, honestly I might have been better suited comparing Reckoner to Magus of the moon.

Magus of the Moon vs. Chandra's Phoenix - similar spot on the curve and P/T but complete different design elements, here in this new deck we see Chandra's ability having
more to do with the resilience that existed with Demigod of Revenge sooner on the curve.

5CC
Demigod of Revenge vs. Stormbreath Dragon - Demigod is one of my favorite cards of all time but Stormbreath should make for some very interesting plays against control and the pro white can't be under appreciated in addition to the ability to pump.

Spells
1CC
Skred vs. Chained to the Rocks - I think chained to the rocks while being sorcery speed will help deal with the likes of VoR.
2CC
Incinerate vs. Magma Jet or Lightning Strike - I think in this case we go Magma jet, seeing how shock lands are a very real thing the extra point of damage to me seems manageable and fixing our draws and top decks will give RDW added resilience.
NA
Flame Javelin vs. Boros Charm - Charm wins out here handily, protecting our creatures from sweeper on T3 and 4 and giving us
reach late game in addition to a very real double strike for Monstrosity with stormbreath dragon or a flooded out board with Firedrinker Satyr, all though to be fair that doesn't happen that often its nice to have.

Here is the list I will be running after extensive testing

[deck]Creatures 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells 12
4 Boros Charm
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Magma Jet

Land 24
16 Mountain
2 mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple of Triumph[/deck]

A couple of points of: this build only runs 6 sources for white but when break down the stats they look as follows: the math on hitting a white source in our opening hand 62% of the time, draw step one and two 69.4% & 76.6% respectively.

we should not looking to use boros charm till turn 3 at the earliest if not more likely turns 4 & 5 for protection from sweepers or to dome.

Also here is the mana and source distribution 76% red and 24%
white and the distribution is 77% and 23% respectively. I feel by upping the white sources to 8(adding two more temple of triumph) we being to lose tempo.

[zemanjaski]

The core strategy actually isn't the same. MJs deck has a full 10 mana sinks:
- 4 Figure
- 4 Magus of the Scroll
- 2 Keldon Megaliths

That substantially changes how that deck operates. You kinda have six (I'm being generous and counting Satyr. You've accurately noted the differences in card quality so I won't harp on that. But do be aware that just having an identical curve doesn't mean the deck plays the same.

Secondly and more importantly are the decks that MJs card choices were designed to beat. The decks were Faeries, Quick'n'Toast and GB Elves. If you look at how all his card choices line up to what the formats removal looked like, as well as key cards, everything is well positioned:
- Elves relied on 3/3 vanquisher, 3/3 treetop village and 3/4 'goyf. MJs deck has a bunch of 4/4s, spells that kill those creatures and his two best cards are doom blade proof.
- Faeries relied on
doom blade and counters, which are obviously bad against good early pressure and demigod.
- Quick'n'Toast was a slow 5 colour control variant. This is mono red with magus...

So MJs deck was a meta choice; it was actually unique compared to the other top 16 decks at nationals that year. So think less about just recreating his deck, and more about adopting his approach if building to beat the meta.

This isn't to say the deck needs a complete overhaul; but I do think this meta will look a lot different to the one MJ faced, so be willing to change for that.

Other thoughts:
- Boros Charm should be Lightning Strike. You need more interactivity to supplement your higher curve. You don't want a card that's 4 to the face in a lot if matchups (feel free to SB it) as you're running so many high impact cards that your burn is for board control, no your opponent (MJ had javelin for 'goyf and the 4/4 flash faerie)
- Your manabase needs a lot of work. Check out Ham's article.