Stormbreath Dragon

[redthirst]

i didn't even mention supreme verdict as an answer to this card because that's a dumb argument. maybe read a post, idk.

Read your own post.

like even if UW control doesn't exist, supreme verdict is still the best wrath effect currently printed and still is an answer to this card.

And yes, it is a dumb argument.

[Thrillho]

i'll give you guys this: if UW is basically the only game in town, this will be at least 9/10 of malakir bloodwitch against it because it outright ignores three removal spells in that deck, and that limits the number of cards you can even play against it.

[Kaitscralt]

UW is basically the most popular deck in the format right now, there's no way a port won't happen.

[Wrathberry2]

is there seriously is anyone who says that this card is bad? just because its worse than thundermaw hellkite does not mean its bad.

this will see play 100% in red decks, as the finisher. even cooler it is in a big red shell, where you sometimes can use his monstrosity too.
i really dont see any competetion for this guy.

he dodges any white removal like detention spehre, chained to rocks. cant be blocked by any white creature. and what is important too in my oppinion: he can block bloodbaron of vizkopa without triggering the lfesteal. this caaan be important, since i expect this guy to see more play, and he normaly really is a problem for aggro once dropped.

[Thrillho]

the issue was people jumped up to compare it to thundermaw. compared to thundermaw, this card is garbage. personally i don't think a 4/4 for 5 to be very good in this current environment, and the only deck it truly shines against is UW control, which has no support (so far) from Theros, but is weak to the majority of common removal spells in the format in color combinations that are well supported (mortars, doom blade and colleagues). if UW control is THE DECK, the is a good card against it. otherwise, there are a lot of 4/4s this card has to compete with, and the current exchange rate on red decks isn't looking like high end is the place to be.

also your threshold for what is/isn't garbage just may be much lower than mine.

[Wrathberry2]

He has flying ans haste. And is 4/4 for 5. And the prot from white and monstrousity. Sorry but how spoiled are we? And just because the mb best red 5-drop of all time is better, does not mean this card is bad.

[LP, of the Fires]

What's the workable mana going to be?

UB, RG, BW, R/W, and UG all have support. Looking at 3 color combinations from there:

Esper, Bug, RUG, Naya.

Ok.

The most relvant removal to a hasty flying dragon is the black removal of which 4 of 9 supported colors manawise have access to. Adding in mizzum mortars, that number jumps to 8/9 but mortars is mediocre vs. this guy since he's already dealt his damage the turn you play him. Additionally, all the RW decks are likely leaning on instant speed burn and Chained to Rocks/Warleaders helix which the dragon is immune to. It's also a superior chump blocker against BW's best threats in the form of Obzedat and Blood Baron of Vizkopa.

So Looking at good removal, and mediocre removal, plus relevant threats in the supported colors, the dragon seems to line up passably.

When we add decks that don't have supported mana that people will try to play anyways(like UWR, GB,
Jund, etc.) the dragon looks better because he goes into an aggressive deck which naturally punishes bad manabases and having a hasty dragon as a finisher is amazing especially from a tempo standpoint. Most 2 color decks will be on average a turn behind from playing scry lands/guildgates, and creatures with haste effectively put you a turn ahead so that's another pro for the dragon.

The biggest thing for me is that he's very good at nailing planeswalkers and there are a couple good one's in the set that he lays low or outright kills in Elspeth, and Xenagos. I imagine that along with being immune to azorius charm, chained to rocks, and warleaders helix will push him firmly into standard playability and I expect him to be appearing in top 8s for some time until Nix comes out.

It's also mostly useless to compare amazing card no longer in standard(at the end of the month) to new card in standard and say it's garbage since they literally never compete for slots. It's like saying dissipate is
terrible next to mana leak or rakdos cackler is terrible compared to goblin. Who the fuck cares.

[Thrillho]

Cards that look good in a void may not actually fit into a deck or may not actually be good. Creatures are better. Removal is better. They just printed a strictly better Jackal Pup, a card that saw play in constructed formats for close to a decade, an it's arguable whether or not the card is even playable right now. Maybe your sense of perspective is off that you feel the need to qualify your card evaluation through hyperbole, I don't know and I honestly don't care.

Good and bad are subjective evaluations. I think the card is garbage and went on to explain my subjective evaluation. Telling me you think the card is not bad because Thundermaw Hellkite is better than it does nothing to temper my evaluation of the card. Cards that are garbage see play all the time (a 2/2 that can't block is one of the premier red 1-drops in mono-red decks); that doesn't make them good, it just makes them the card that fits a need.

[Thrillho]

People are making bonkers posts comparing this to "the best red 5-drop of all time" and then get surprised that their opinion isn't the only one that can be polarized.

[LP, of the Fires]

Good is mostly "does this card contribute to decks capable of winning/placing you in the money if put in your deck". That is all I need for a card to be good. Make my deck good enough to win me money.

Card satisfies the top end of my deck with perfect mana and I look forward to winning more boxes of cards and placing in high level events with it. People didn't think new Chandra was great either and I used her to win a box of FTV 20 and a box of Thero's in the last week. 26 dollar store credit=300+dollars in product. I'll take that all day.

[Thrillho]

and how many times has this card that is not legal won you money?

[LP, of the Fires]

I mean, if I get to play against people who think like you, I'll probably never drop a game once thero's hits.